Essential Magic > Forums Homepage > Rules Questions > 'Until end of turn' versus 'at end of turn'
You are not logged in, so you will not be able to post to this thread
or reply to any posts. We suggest that you | Posted By | Post Title | Date Posted |
|
Lord Sauron
Joined: 9/1/2005 Quote: [none]
|
'Until end of turn' versus 'at end of turn'
|
5/21/2012 9:21:41 PM |
|
I'm a little confused about Sundial of the Infinite Buy. After checking http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=228118 I was convinced that 'end of turn effects' are not taking place. However, the following combo with Sundial of the Infinite Buy was marked as invalid by a guru, because he/she claims that 'end of turn effects' are taking place. http://www.essentialmagic.com/Combos/CommentsAndRatings.asp?ID=72248. Who is wrong? The essential guru, or the Wizards of the Coast export?
|
||
|
||
|
|
||
evileskimocal
  
Joined: 4/13/2004
Quote:
"When Marge isn't happy, I'm not happy. And when I'm not happy, Moe's very happy. But for once, this isn't about Moe."
|
RE: Are the Gurus understanding it correctly | 5/21/2012 9:52:28 PM |
|
"End of turn effects are not taking place" does not make sense. Reins of Power Buy does not have an "end of turn effect taking place." Rather, it creates a continuous effect that lasts until end of turn. During the cleanup step, the effect ends and the creatures return to their previous controllers. The combo does not work, but WotC is not wrong. WotC never said Sundial of the Infinite Buy would stop Reins of Power Buy from returning the creatures to their original controllers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Magic Rules Advisor AIM: clanlsg 2010 eMmies: Nicest Member 2009 eMmies: Most Likely to be Mod 2008 eMmies: Nicest Member, Best Sig, Funniest Member, Most Likely to be Mod <(-'.'-)> Q(-'.'-Q) <(-'.'-<) (>-'.'-)> O==(-.-Q) t(-'.'-t) 
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
Mallys
Joined: 5/21/2004 Quote: [none]
|
RE: Are the Gurus understanding it correctly | 5/21/2012 11:17:42 PM |
|
To elaborate on Cal's post a bit... The note from Sundial of the Infinite Buy's entry on Gatherer. This applies to triggered abilities that trigger "at the beginning of the next end step" (formerly "at end of turn"). Those abilities trigger at the beginning of the end step, and when you activate and resolve Sundial of the Infinite Buy's ability, the game skips that step and goes straight to the cleanup step, so those abilities won't trigger. As part of the cleanup step, all abilities that last "until end of turn" end at that time. So the ability resolves and moves the game to the cleanup step, and effects that last "until end of turn," like that of Reins of Power Buy, end. -------------------- Magic Rules Advisor =D
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
HunterZero
Joined: 1/15/2002 Quote: "For the first time in his life, Grakk felt a little warm and fuzzy inside."
|
RE: RE: Are the Gurus understanding it correctly | 5/22/2012 3:35:55 AM |
|
Pretty clear from the comprehensive rules, knowing that the Ending Phase consists of two steps, the end step and cleanup step, and that triggered abilities written "At the beginning of the end step" are different to continuous effects with duration that lasts "Until end of turn". 713. Ending the Turn 713.1. Two cards (Time Stop Buy and Sundial of the Infinite Buy) end the turn. When an effect ends the turn, follow these steps in order, as they differ from the normal process for resolving spells and abilities (see rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities”). 713.1a Exile every object on the stack, including the object that’s resolving. Remove all creatures and planeswalkers (including those that are phased out) from combat. All objects not on the battlefield or in the command zone that aren’t represented by cards will cease to exist the next time state-based actions are checked (see rule 704, “State-Based Actions”). 713.1b Check state-based actions. No player gets priority, and no triggered abilities are put onto the stack. 713.1c The current phase and/or step ends. The game skips straight to the cleanup step. Skip any phases or steps between this phase or step and the cleanup step. ... 713.3. Even though the turn ends, “at the beginning of the end step” triggered abilities don’t trigger because the end step is skipped. ... 514. Cleanup Step 514.1. First, if the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce his or her hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. 514.2. Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. - HZ DCI MTG Rules Advisor 
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
The comments and opinions expressed here are those of Essential Magic users and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Essential Magic itself. Essential Magic cannot be held liable for physical or emotional damage or losses caused by any of the comments expressed in these open forums.
