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Posted By	Post Title	Date Posted
MagestoneMagus Joined: 8/8/2004 Quote: LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!	Necroskitter	5/22/2017 6:13:02 PM
	I control a Necroskitter Buy. I cast a Soul Snuffers Buy then follow it up with Damnation Buy. Do I gain control of all my opponents creatures that survived the Snuffers? Is there some rule that can clarify etb and ltb triggers? Specifically entering and leaving at the same time as a Permanent with the etb or ltb ability. Thanks for the help ---------------------------------------- LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!


Mallys Joined: 5/21/2004 Quote: [none]	RE: Necroskitter	5/23/2017 3:55:10 AM
	Quoting MagestoneMagus:I control a Necroskitter Buy. I cast a Soul Snuffers Buy then follow it up with Damnation Buy. Do I gain control of all my opponents creatures that survived the Snuffers? Is there some rule that can clarify etb and ltb triggers? Specifically entering and leaving at the same time as a Permanent with the etb or ltb ability. Thanks for the help Yes to everything. Most everything you need is in section 603 in the rules, on triggered abilities. For the main question, we see that Quoting CompRules:603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows: 603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library. Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability “Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life.” Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact’s ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner’s graveyard at the same time as the creatures. Because Necroskitter Buy has a leaves-the-battlefield ability (603.6c), we have to look back just before the event (Damnation Buy's effect in this case) to see what will trigger during the event. Even though it's dying at the same time, Necroskitter Buy will "see" all the withered creatures dying as well and trigger appropriately. Conveniently, the given example in the rules is a very similar situation. We can also derive from this rule that just after an event (like objects entering the battlefield), we should look around and see if anything should trigger. So if multiple creatures enter the battlefield simultaneously, any EtB triggers (including those on the new creatures) will see all of the creatures and trigger appropriately. -------------------- Comprehensive Rules --- Gatherer --- Tournament Rules


MagestoneMagus Joined: 8/8/2004 Quote: LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!	Re	5/23/2017 3:33:25 PM
	Thanks for all the information. Is there a more simple explanation? Kinda like the bow and arrow example that gets used for activated abilities. ---------------------------------------- LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!


Mallys Joined: 5/21/2004 Quote: [none]	RE: Re	5/23/2017 7:42:35 PM
	There might be a more creative person that can put a cute metaphor together, but I can't think of something offhand. Most situations work more-or-less intuitively, but there are some quirky exceptions that throw a wrench into things. -------------------- Comprehensive Rules --- Gatherer --- Tournament Rules


MagestoneMagus Joined: 8/8/2004 Quote: LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!	RE: RE: Re	5/24/2017 6:15:00 AM
	I couldn't think of a way to explain it either. Thanks for all you do (The links in your sig are still very useful) ---------------------------------------- LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!


MagestoneMagus Joined: 8/8/2004 Quote: LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!	RE: Re:	1/3/2018 6:07:35 PM
	To follow up, I assume this same rule works for The Scorpion God Buy? Should I make a new thread for The Scorpion God Buy? ---------------------------------------- LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!


Mallys Joined: 5/21/2004 Quote: [none]	RE: RE: Re:	1/4/2018 1:03:58 AM
	A new thread isn't generally a bad idea, but this is a pretty similar situation. In any case, as you might expect, the result ends up being the same. The Scorpion God Buy will see other creatures dying at the same time it dies. -------------------- Comprehensive Rules --- Gatherer --- Tournament Rules

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