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Essential Magic > Forums Homepage > Rules Questions > I have card fist of suns and want to cast commander card Ur dragon

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forsher43

Joined: 8/19/2014

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Question I have card fist of suns and want to cast commander card Ur dragon 8/21/2018 4:21:07 AM

If I have fist of suns[\card] and I want to cast my commander the Ur dragon[\card] for the third time, can I pay just one of each color for the artifact to cast him?

 

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Mallys
Guru

Joined: 5/21/2004

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RE: I have card fist of suns and want to cast commander card Ur dragon 8/21/2018 8:12:44 PM

Quoting forsher43:If I have Fist of Suns Buy and I want to cast my commander Scion of the Ur-Dragon Buy for the third time, can I pay just one of each color for the artifact to cast him?

Nope. You'll have to pay {4}{W}{U}{B}{R}{G}. Alternative casting costs (like from Fist of Suns Buy) are applied before additional costs (like the "commander tax").

Quoting CompRules:601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

--------------------
Comprehensive Rules --- Gatherer --- Tournament Rules

 

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MagestoneMagus

Joined: 8/8/2004

Quote: LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!

 

Reduction? 9/24/2018 6:35:48 PM

So, The Ur-Dragon won't reduce his own cost to cast?

(I guess The Ur-Dragon isn't in the system for e-Tags)
----------------------------------------
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!!

 

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Mallys
Guru

Joined: 5/21/2004

Quote: [none]

 

RE: Reduction? 9/24/2018 9:35:59 PM

Quoting MagestoneMagus:So, The Ur-Dragon won't reduce his own cost to cast?

(I guess The Ur-Dragon isn't in the system for e-Tags)

Even if its ability didn't specify "other Dragon spells" (which was likely added to reduce potential confusion on this specific question), it still wouldn't affect its own cost. Its ability only affects costs while it's in the command zone or on the battlefield. One of the first steps to casting a spell is to put it on the stack. So when it comes time to determine the final casting cost, its reduction ability wouldn't apply.



Also, reflecting back on the original question (since I forgot The Ur-Dragon itself was a card), the answer, oddly, is the same, just with slightly different reasoning. The Fist of Suns Buy cost reduction will apply (and actually make a difference), but you'll still have to pay the extra {4} for the "commander tax," so the final cost will be {4}{W}{U}{B}{R}{G} instead of {8}{W}{U}{B}{R}{G}.
--------------------
Comprehensive Rules --- Gatherer --- Tournament Rules

 

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